When is film noir film noir? by Bill Kay

Let's get one thing clear at the start: I'm no expert on film, so don't expect too much expertise from what follows. I've passed no exams in the subject, earned no diplomas, written no books. I've just paid my money and watched.
But after nearly three years living near LA, having been through three Cinecon seasons and now into my third season of film noir at the Egyptian, some of it may be sinking in.
After last night's session, encompassing Alias Nick Beal and Fly-by-Night, the question being asked was 'were they really films noirs?' Which naturally depends on how you answer 'what IS film noir?'
Wikipedia says it 'describes stylish Hollywood crime dramas, particularly those that emphasize moral ambiguity and sexual motivation.'
In their 1955 book Panorama du film noir américain 1941–1953 (A Panorama of American Film Noir), said to be the original and seminal extended study of the subject, the French critics Raymond Borde and Etienne Chaumeton say: "We'd be oversimplifying things in calling film noir oneiric, strange, erotic, ambivalent, and cruel...." Oneiric means dreamlike.
Apart from the facts that 'film noir' is a French phrase and Borde and Chaumeton are French, I'm not sure that their view is any better than anyone else's - after all, the fact I speak English doesn't make me an authority on roast beef - but it fleshes out the Wiki attempt.
To me, though, Alias Nick Beal, a remake of Faust, fits the Borde-Chaumeton definition but not Wiki. The story of the seduction of a politician was dreamlike, ambivalent and cruel, with even a touch of eroticism. But there was next to no sexual motivation and little moral ambiguity - how could there be when it came down to a fight between a vicar and the devil?
Fly-by-Night felt more like a romantic comedy made for Rock Hudson and Doris Day than a true film noir. It had crime and a light dusting of sexual motivation, but again no moral ambiguity. The far-fetched plot was a little strange, but it didn't strike me as dreamlike, erotic, ambivalent or cruel.
These two films were much more borderline than the previous night's, the two Jane Greer movies, Out of the Past and The Company She Keeps, which seemed right in the middle of what you'd expect from a film noir evening.
Like all artistic movements, film noir was categorized as such only in retrospect. At the time, they were just an era of black and white movies that were in tune with the morally fluid climate that caught plenty of people during and soon after the second world war. And many of them were based on books that had been written in the depression of the 1930s.
The LA Times reports today that romantic novels are big sellers as millions of people try to escape their financial problems. Maybe in the 2020s the Egyptian will host seasons of film rouge for a new generation eager to understand what we are currently going through. I bet you won't be able to get in for $7, though.